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Post by amstilost on Feb 8, 2023 19:07:53 GMT -6
i think that El ninos often bring the same sensible wx as what we experienced. In fact, southern mo benefits from an active southern storm track and is often marginally cold enough to lay down a 30 mile or so wide track of snow on the northern fringes. The onslaught to the pacific coast is big too with a mostly fast zonal flow across the conus. Since this describes our sensible weather this winter, I think you could say la nina is gender confused and may even identify as an el nino in terms of sensible wx. The only thing i havent seen is noreasters that we often see with el ninos. El Niño conditions offer an explanation to my brain and keeps my expectations managed. IMBY I think I’ve had some good winters during El Niño My memory of an El Nino winter was when I was still in CA. 1982-83 was an amazing thunderstorm weather year in SoCal. There was a lot of damage further north but I just remeber the little concrete 'Drainage Washes' that were just barely containg the run-off and I had never seen the Santa Ana River as high as it was. Just seems strange that the onslaught of storms/rain on the west coast last month/over Christmas seems more akin to El Nino than La Nina. I guess we just need a prolonged period of a Cold Phase PDO. It was in the cool phase from 1947 until it flipped to warm in 1976. The warm phase lasted until 1999. Seems it has flipped phases quicker than it used to. The last phase shifted to 'strongly positive' in 2014. I know our 2013/14 winter was blockbusters around here. Not sure if the 'changing PDO' had anything to do with that or not. These are the types of questions I would love reading 'answers or theories' about. PDO Citations
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Post by mosue56 on Feb 8, 2023 19:46:24 GMT -6
So maybe after three winters of La Niña, we’ll get La Nino next go round!
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Post by mosue56 on Feb 8, 2023 19:46:50 GMT -6
El Niño sorry ha
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Post by showtime - Marissa on Feb 8, 2023 19:53:27 GMT -6
Snowing in Oklahoma….. must be nice to get snow in February
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Post by SnowManJoe - Wentzville, MO on Feb 8, 2023 19:56:03 GMT -6
El Niño is Spanish for…. The Niño.
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Post by amstilost on Feb 8, 2023 21:12:59 GMT -6
So maybe after three winters of La Niña, we’ll get La Nino next go round! Chris Farley would have done a La Nino proud.
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Post by beaker - Dardenne Prairie, MO on Feb 8, 2023 22:20:52 GMT -6
Honestly, I cant remember el nino winters too much as it feels like we have been neutral or la nina since I moved back to St.Louis from columbia 6 years ago. For some reason 1999 stands out to me as I was in Kindergarten and I seem to remember a snow Ice storm you can walk on top of several inches of packed snow. I remember having a ton of snowdays in the Fort Zumwalt district. Either I have the wrong year or was that el nino that year. There's a pretty good write somewhere about the correlation of El Nino and La Nina and snowfall reported at St. Louis. If I get time, I'll dig it up. I think you are correct, though sir. In the past 6 years, I don't recall an El Nino. The last one I recall was a west based El Nino, which I think does give us more snow, but I don't recall when that was. It's been my experience, though, that our best winters are the neutral winters after El Nino. Though as others point out, the correlation is quite weak, and I know that BRTN would say this - it isn't as simple as knowing what phase we are in. We always have to dig deeper. There's also west based and east based El Nino which that write-up did not address. In my mind, it's kind of like jerking a rope up and down and watching the ripple. It takes time for weather patterns in the conus to conform. FWIW, the CFS depicts a major icestorm toward the end of the month, then warms things up. Of course, there's no way of knowing. Late winter/early spring pattern becomes so chaotic, any predictability beyond 3 or 4 days is just not there. I think we have to consider from here on out, the general pattern we are in, and prepare ourselves for a cold, rainy late winter/early spring (meteorological), and a continued lack of snow. I'm just hoping that the mean ridge that has plagued the ms valley retrogades to the west by the time hot season approaches, and we end up with a cooler summer. But of course, if that happens the drought out west then, could have some impact on next winter, absent any strong pacific oscillation signal. On the other hand, we are due for an above normal snowfall winter. These are just random thoughts. In a typical La Nina year, we would have expected more bouts of cold, alternating with periods of very warm. We were warm for 30 days in the heart of winter. To me, that's reminiscent of the pineapple express patterns we experience in El Nino. They tend to last that long, IMO. Broad strokes in my thoughts here. Very broad. Our southerners have come up with a decent amount of snow - fairly close to their normal, and I certainly would expect that they will get more snow this winter - places like Farmington, Ste. Genevieve, Perryville. Overall I'd say this winter does not fit well with what I would have expected. But there are anomalies from time to time.
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Post by goutkvols KCMO on Feb 9, 2023 7:06:20 GMT -6
Thundersnow this morning in KC This unexpected event has been our snow of the season.
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Post by cardsnweather on Feb 9, 2023 7:52:30 GMT -6
Thundersnow this morning in KC This unexpected event has been our snow of the season. You guys got 8"??
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Post by Snowman99 on Feb 9, 2023 8:11:07 GMT -6
I mean. LOL. Is it July yet? More mild and rain next week. But I'm someone near by will get 6 inches. Unreal.
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Post by beaker - Dardenne Prairie, MO on Feb 9, 2023 8:27:28 GMT -6
Chris, will these winds continue this afternoon? Asking bc i need to make a decision regarding a home project on whether to set up for it or not.
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Post by beaker - Dardenne Prairie, MO on Feb 9, 2023 9:03:06 GMT -6
That system end of next week bears watching for the potential of some rain to ice in the metro, with snow in columbia to kirksville if it moves through further south than currently progged by ec.
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Post by Snowman99 on Feb 9, 2023 9:17:10 GMT -6
Lol
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Post by BRTNWXMAN on Feb 9, 2023 9:19:47 GMT -6
That system end of next week bears watching for the potential of some rain to ice in the metro, with snow in columbia to kirksville if it moves through further south than currently progged by ec. I noticed the GOOFUS2.0 was showing something big brewing towards D10.
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Post by Snowstorm920 on Feb 9, 2023 9:36:38 GMT -6
Only 20 days until meteorological spring
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Post by maddogchief on Feb 9, 2023 10:16:11 GMT -6
That system end of next week bears watching for the potential of some rain to ice in the metro, with snow in columbia to kirksville if it moves through further south than currently progged by ec. I noticed the GOOFUS2.0 was showing something big brewing towards D10. It’ll go south.
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Post by weatherj on Feb 9, 2023 10:24:39 GMT -6
I noticed the GOOFUS2.0 was showing something big brewing towards D10. It’ll go south. I can definitely see why you guys up there feel the way you do. It really seems like central IL has been in no man's land the last 5+ seasons. Granted, it's nothing to write home about just N and S of you either, but I feel like SPI to DEC and eastward to the IN border has really been hosed. A couple of the storms that got the metro good a few years ago (January 2019) always seemed to have too much dry air entrainment over central IL.
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Post by ElburnDave on Feb 9, 2023 10:34:27 GMT -6
Only 20 days until meteorological spring 39 til the calendar says so and 52 years are in the books. Bring it! Ready for brats, beer and bags in the back yard. This winter has sucked and I dislike plowing wet, sloppy snow.
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Post by Snowstorm920 on Feb 9, 2023 10:34:29 GMT -6
May need to keep an eye on next week for severe weather. That’s a big ol’ trough across the west with any system(s) likely cutting
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Post by Worldserieschampions (Chicago) on Feb 9, 2023 10:34:59 GMT -6
Looking at the last several model runs the Midwest looks to have a heightened blizzard risk next week at this time.
The gfs and ggem are in the north camp. The euro is further south keeping the metro interested.
A lot will be determined by the track of the lead wave and how close is drags the cold air down.
SSW looks to peak around that time as well, but might be a coincidence.
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Post by Snowman99 on Feb 9, 2023 10:46:47 GMT -6
I'm sure there will be a blizzard next week and I hope Des Moines enjoys it, as they usually do with their annual blizzard. We will receive more unneeded rain. I'm so excited I could puke.
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Post by weatherj on Feb 9, 2023 10:59:46 GMT -6
I'm sure there will be a blizzard next week and I hope Des Moines enjoys it, as they usually do with their annual blizzard. We will receive more unneeded rain. I'm so excited I could puke. Unfortunately, it wouldn't surprise me if wsc gets screwed in Chicago yet again as well.
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Post by BRTNWXMAN on Feb 9, 2023 11:00:49 GMT -6
Snow in KC today, snow in Tennessee this weekend..."caught in the middle with you"
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Post by goutkvols KCMO on Feb 9, 2023 11:10:44 GMT -6
Thundersnow this morning in KC This unexpected event has been our snow of the season. You guys got 8"?? I don't know if anyone got that much. I'm by the airport and my area got 3-4 inches of heavy wet snow. It's already compacted and melting away
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Post by BRTNWXMAN on Feb 9, 2023 11:12:19 GMT -6
Looking at the last several model runs the Midwest looks to have a heightened blizzard risk next week at this time. The gfs and ggem are in the north camp. The euro is further south keeping the metro interested. A lot will be determined by the track of the lead wave and how close is drags the cold air down. SSW looks to peak around that time as well, but might be a coincidence. Definitely gonna need a well-timed wave coming through the N stream ahead of it or it's wagons north. I'd say 920 is right with a better risk for severe vs. winter here. The large-scale pattern does look better later in the month though with the vortex decending towards Hudson and a -EPO trying to develop.
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Post by Snowstorm920 on Feb 9, 2023 12:41:11 GMT -6
I guess the Euro is tired of our complaining. It unleashes a big winter storm over the area next week.
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Post by beaker - Dardenne Prairie, MO on Feb 9, 2023 12:45:37 GMT -6
May need to keep an eye on next week for severe weather. That’s a big ol’ trough across the west with any system(s) likely cutting Not just next week, but im eyeing some potential for some pretty big temp extremes across the ctry, which could lead to a big severe pattern into March. That ec ridge is not going away, but the mjo phase and the other aforementioned factors that brtn discussed trying to bring cold to the mw has me concerned. Im more concerned with severe wx in areas to our southeast, such as the oh and tn valleys, which may get targeted with multiple severe outbreaks and bc of our proximity, we should also watch how this plays out in our backyards as well. As storm systems develop over the southern plains and try to ride over that se and ec ridge, there could be some big weather makers for our region. Now my gut says we will be on the northern flank of this area, so that tells me we hv to watch for possible severe wx from time to time, but when the severe threat is suppressed into semo, ky, tn, and surrounding areas, we hv to watch for big time rains. If we can get some cold air in front of those storm systems, we cld see another possible episode of ice and wet snow with marginal temps as well, but i think the story is going to be more about the developing severe threat to our se.
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Post by Worldserieschampions (Chicago) on Feb 9, 2023 12:49:16 GMT -6
I guess the Euro is tired of our complaining. It unleashes a big winter storm over the area next week. I would pay $1,000 cash right now to lock that run in. Straight blizzard for the northern metro through my neighborhood. Alas, 7 days out we know how this goes.
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Post by landscaper on Feb 9, 2023 12:53:39 GMT -6
It’s basically 1-3” for the metro unfortunately it’s own it’s own so far
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Post by Worldserieschampions (Chicago) on Feb 9, 2023 13:02:04 GMT -6
It’s basically 1-3” for the metro unfortunately it’s own it’s own so far Would you rather have the euro or gfs/ggem showing the better outcome? Verbatim, it has 2-4 inches in St. Charles (more in western portion of county). It has the northern metro getting crushed. Gfs ensembles were well south of the operational (but well north of the euro). It’s not a likely outcome, but certainly not a pipe dream either.
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