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Post by mchafin on Feb 16, 2024 20:40:34 GMT -6
I’m looking forward to seeing the final NWS snowfall map for this event. The current one looks light relative to the totals I’ve been seeing on the interwebs.
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Post by cardsnweather on Feb 16, 2024 20:41:00 GMT -6
The sim radars the last couple of runs nailed it perfectly. It was impressive how quickly it accumulated.
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Post by mchafin on Feb 16, 2024 20:41:32 GMT -6
Also - great job Chris. And whomever pointed out thunder around Springfield earlier today - what a nice prelude of things to come!
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Post by TK on Feb 16, 2024 20:50:27 GMT -6
Fun day today.... 4.5 inches in OFallon, MO located at K/N
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Post by let it snow11 on Feb 16, 2024 21:01:02 GMT -6
Ended up with about 1.5 inches of snow and sleet in my back yard, northern St. Francois county. For a half hour it was really beautiful, almost a white out, from like 2pm to 2:30pm, thunder and pouring snow. It was lovely. We got sent home from work at noon, thankfully. I'm glad the kids can play tomorrow, it won't be gone in hours and there's enough for at least a little sledding. I'll enjoy my coffee and look at it from the window.
I feel the forecast in my back yard was pretty close. Nice job Chris!
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Post by John G -west belleville on Feb 16, 2024 21:59:31 GMT -6
The downside of allegiant. When it's good it's awesome. When it's terrible, it's downright terrible Did you measure??? I just didn't feel like measuring but I guestimate a very very healthy 5" like cardsNweather had in Ofallon. I was hoping the hour or so of legit very legit but not quite Jimmy Cantore level TSNOW was enough to challenge Mount Darthsnovius in St. Peters unprecedented streak of winning the golden snow shoe.. I very rarely measure snow. Once the grass is covered, I'm happy. Don't drive the hills on the bluff in this weather though. Horrible.
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Post by cozpregon on Feb 16, 2024 22:11:11 GMT -6
This morning's 850 fgen showed it well
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Post by Chris Higgins on Feb 16, 2024 22:46:35 GMT -6
This morning's 850 fgen showed it well Truth is we sometimes do better here with sheared out, weaker systems where the 850mb low isn't as wrapped up so the WAA is weaker. Today we had just the right mix of modest 850mb moist flow...juxtaposed with just cold enough and dry enough air being forced south by the northern stream. The NAM picking up the southern band after the event begins was not helpful... Yes, it finally caught on, but that model needs to have a better reliability window than 12 hours. It has proven two storms in a row that 12 hours might be its cut-off.
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Post by cozpregon on Feb 16, 2024 22:52:03 GMT -6
Yep better than 12 hours would be helpful- when I saw this this morning I was not surprised this overachieved - a few soundings had lapse rates 8*C/km thru the zone
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Post by Chris Higgins on Feb 17, 2024 1:24:31 GMT -6
I’m not trying to be overly critical of the NWS at all - but i think it’s reasonable to ask that with the swing and a miss on the last storm if the NWS was a little hesitant to go bigger with this storm out of concern of being burned again. The problem is - at least where I live in Wildwood - this is easily the biggest storm of the year and folks are legitimately un-prepared. Some roads are impassable while kids are trying to get home from school and all of this for about 4-6 inches. You have to error on the side of what the storm could produce and yes you will get burned for the snow that never comes - but even when that happens no one is stuck in their car. Just my thoughts. A couple of points to address sparkman... 1) Yes, I would not be surpised nor blame any meteorologist who has to do this job for a living for being a little gunshy after the Monday non-event. It would be human nature. I preach to my broadcast students (and remind myself regularly) to never be affraid to forecast. By that I mean exactly what you are saying... you cannot let a past missed forecast keep you from getting back into the game to try again. You must learn from that experience, but never shy away from forecasting. If you do, you'll end up playing catch up with every weather event. 2) I will respectfully disagree to some extent on the notion that we have to always forecast the worst case scenario... or what a storm COULD produce. That is frought with hazards, the most important being that if go "big" with every storm, people stop paying attention. We already get accused of crying wolf anytime the word snow is mentioned in a forecast. And let's face it... every storm has a 10% chance of a big suprise... which means 90% of them do not. Should we always highlight and forecast to that top 10%. I argue we should not. What you can do is lay your best forecast out on the table, but also explain the realistic chances for what could go wrong. Are there any indications that have you as the forecaster a bit concerned about a suprise? Not unlike what I posted in here yesterday... about my concerns for today to overachieve a bit. I honestly think one of the biggest problems we ran into today was that when the time came to make a decision early this morning there wasn't much going on yet. Radar didn't look impressive at all around 4am and what was falling was hardly impressive and it wasn't sticking. So I can understand hesitation at that point with calling school. That being said, our forecast did specifically mention that the afternoon bus stop time could be moderately impacted by snow. Considering schools these days seem to cancel for even the most minor impact events, I would have thought that warning about the afternoon bus stop would have been enough to get administrators to act. What is even more perplexing to me is not using the readily available virtual learning day option. I know those aren't ideal, but it sure is a safer option than taking a chance by sending kids to school on a day where snow was in the forecast. I do wonder if the lack of a Winter Weather Advisory for STL had anything to do with it? Imagine the uproar in the opposite direction... you cancel classes, there is no advisory issued and the roads end up being fine. Parents would come after administrators for cancelling school for no reason. Anyway... good discussion points Sparkman...I really do appreciate the constructive conversation and the respectful way those questions were posed! Refreshing in this day and age!
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Post by Sparkman - Wildwood, Mo on Feb 17, 2024 3:26:12 GMT -6
I’m not trying to be overly critical of the NWS at all - but i think it’s reasonable to ask that with the swing and a miss on the last storm if the NWS was a little hesitant to go bigger with this storm out of concern of being burned again. The problem is - at least where I live in Wildwood - this is easily the biggest storm of the year and folks are legitimately un-prepared. Some roads are impassable while kids are trying to get home from school and all of this for about 4-6 inches. You have to error on the side of what the storm could produce and yes you will get burned for the snow that never comes - but even when that happens no one is stuck in their car. Just my thoughts. A couple of points to address sparkman... 1) Yes, I would not be surpised nor blame any meteorologist who has to do this job for a living for being a little gunshy after the Monday non-event. It would be human nature. I preach to my broadcast students (and remind myself regularly) to never be affraid to forecast. By that I mean exactly what you are saying... you cannot let a past missed forecast keep you from getting back into the game to try again. You must learn from that experience, but never shy away from forecasting. If you do, you'll end up playing catch up with every weather event. 2) I will respectfully disagree to some extent on the notion that we have to always forecast the worst case scenario... or what a storm COULD produce. That is frought with hazards, the most important being that if go "big" with every storm, people stop paying attention. We already get accused of crying wolf anytime the word snow is mentioned in a forecast. And let's face it... every storm has a 10% chance of a big suprise... which means 90% of them do not. Should we always highlight and forecast to that top 10%. I argue we should not. What you can do is lay your best forecast out on the table, but also explain the realistic chances for what could go wrong. Are there any indications that have you as the forecaster a bit concerned about a suprise? Not unlike what I posted in here yesterday... about my concerns for today to overachieve a bit. I honestly think one of the biggest problems we ran into today was that when the time came to make a decision early this morning there wasn't much going on yet. Radar didn't look impressive at all around 4am and what was falling was hardly impressive and it wasn't sticking. So I can understand hesitation at that point with calling school. That being said, our forecast did specifically mention that the afternoon bus stop time could be moderately impacted by snow. Considering schools these days seem to cancel for even the most minor impact events, I would have thought that warning about the afternoon bus stop would have been enough to get administrators to act. What is even more perplexing to me is not using the readily available virtual learning day option. I know those aren't ideal, but it sure is a safer option than taking a chance by sending kids to school on a day where snow was in the forecast. I do wonder if the lack of a Winter Weather Advisory for STL had anything to do with it? Imagine the uproar in the opposite direction... you cancel classes, there is no advisory issued and the roads end up being fine. Parents would come after administrators for cancelling school for no reason. Anyway... good discussion points Sparkman...I really do appreciate the constructive conversation and the respectful way those questions were posed! Refreshing in this day and age! Excellent point and much appreciated as always Chris - yet another example of why this forum is so valued and appreciated by so many - no matter the season.
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Post by bororug on Feb 17, 2024 7:49:09 GMT -6
Anyone have the official snowfall total at Lambert?
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Post by guyatacomputer - NE St. Peters on Feb 17, 2024 8:02:05 GMT -6
Anyone have the official snowfall total at Lambert? 2.1" according to the daily summary. But I thought ch. 2 was reporting 3.3" last night.
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Post by BRTNWXMAN on Feb 17, 2024 8:36:15 GMT -6
Lambert recorded 3.4" with 0.39" liquid equivalent(about 9:1 SLR).
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Post by guyatacomputer - NE St. Peters on Feb 17, 2024 9:34:54 GMT -6
Lambert recorded 3.4" with 0.39" liquid equivalent(about 9:1 SLR). I'm confused. Why is the NWS daily summary showing 2.1? The snow started Friday morning and ended Friday afternoon.
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Post by let it snow11 on Feb 17, 2024 10:14:16 GMT -6
Drinking my coffee by the window and the brilliant sunlight is shining in. Hearing the icicles dripping and falling off already. There's no denying the increasing strength of the mid to late February sun. Coming out of another Winter with Spring fast approaching. Despite my username on here, Spring is my favorite time of year. I'm looking forward to it! Sled while you can kiddos!
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Post by BRTNWXMAN on Feb 17, 2024 11:50:44 GMT -6
Lambert recorded 3.4" with 0.39" liquid equivalent(about 9:1 SLR). I'm confused. Why is the NWS daily summary showing 2.1? The snow started Friday morning and ended Friday afternoon. Not sure, the data I pulled from AccuWx Pro shows 3.4"
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jipper
Weather Weenie
Wentzville
Posts: 12
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Post by jipper on Feb 17, 2024 12:25:50 GMT -6
I'm confused. Why is the NWS daily summary showing 2.1? The snow started Friday morning and ended Friday afternoon. Not sure, the data I pulled from AccuWx Pro shows 3.4" It's correct on the daily summary. 3.4"
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Post by showtime - Marissa on Feb 17, 2024 12:42:05 GMT -6
Not sure, the data I pulled from AccuWx Pro shows 3.4" It's correct on the daily summary. 3.4"
What’s crazy is that if we get one more decent snow it will be an average winter……. Just shows how bad the last 20 years have been …. Averages have fallen from around 23-25 inches in the 80’s to now around 15 inches…. I miss the late 70’s to mid 80’s winters
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Post by beaker - Dardenne Prairie, MO on Feb 17, 2024 13:03:26 GMT -6
I have to say all forecasters were on top of this, afaiac. I personally think too often the public hangs on every. Single. Word in a forecast. Also way too much gets read into whether theres a headline or not. Its almost as if a wsw is a status symbol. The difference between an inch of snow and 4 inches of snow is pretty negligible in terms of precip amts, and theres so many variables that go into impact level. The high feb sun certainly tempered my expectations. Like tk mentioned 4.5 inches here, and im surprised there was a cottleville location at 6.7? It seems to be an outlier although the nws 3 miles to my south had a pretty close measurement (5.7 iirc?)
I just realize now that since we dont get much snow, a small amt of snow brings impacts and with the new luxury of wfh, i take advantage of that.
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Post by bdgwx on Feb 17, 2024 13:06:54 GMT -6
The airport is up to 11.5" on the year. Not bad.
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Post by BRTNWXMAN on Feb 17, 2024 13:09:43 GMT -6
"Not great"
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Post by beaker - Dardenne Prairie, MO on Feb 17, 2024 13:15:47 GMT -6
Suspect some of the higher measurements were taken in grass or on deck, but with convection, i could understand some lollipops. I, for one, did not have thunder. I understand theres a saying, thunder in feb, frost in april, or something like that?
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Post by weatherj on Feb 17, 2024 13:48:33 GMT -6
We ended up with 5" over here. It was a very nice overachiever out this way as well. Kudos to you Chris as I believe in one of your earlier posts you said east of St. Louis in southern Illinois could be in a heavier band.
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bfsmith81
Wishcaster
Edwardsville, IL
Posts: 150
Snowfall Events: Winter of 2023-2024:
01/05/24-1/06/24: 2.5" (Melted almost immediately)
01/12/24-1/13/24: 0.25"
01/15/24: 0.75"
01/18/24-01/19/24: 0.5"
02/16/24: 4.25"
Winter of 2023-2024 Total So Far: 8.25"
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Post by bfsmith81 on Feb 17, 2024 15:08:08 GMT -6
Amazing to see how much melting occurred today on sun-lit areas even though our temperature has maxed out around 26F. Some spots in the yard are already bare and our 4.25" has been reduced to at most 2" through melting and compaction. You can see on the national temperature maps exactly where it snowed yesterday - a solid 10 degrees cooler than the surrounding areas. No denying the increasing solar insolation as we head towards the end of the winter season.
Would have loved to had this much laid down at the start of our January arctic outbreak to give the kids ample sledding time. I took the little one (3yo) out for a bit today and she had a blast!
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Post by TK on Feb 17, 2024 17:43:56 GMT -6
I have to say all forecasters were on top of this, afaiac. I personally think too often the public hangs on every. Single. Word in a forecast. Also way too much gets read into whether theres a headline or not. Its almost as if a wsw is a status symbol. The difference between an inch of snow and 4 inches of snow is pretty negligible in terms of precip amts, and theres so many variables that go into impact level. The high feb sun certainly tempered my expectations. Like tk mentioned 4.5 inches here, and im surprised there was a cottleville location at 6.7? It seems to be an outlier although the nws 3 miles to my south had a pretty close measurement (5.7 iirc?) I just realize now that since we dont get much snow, a small amt of snow brings impacts and with the new luxury of wfh, i take advantage of that. Yeah - i was a little surprised seeing 6.7 as an official measurement. But I guess there were a lot of pockets of some heavier snow bands all around with hit and misses.
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Post by Snowstorm920 on Feb 17, 2024 18:56:43 GMT -6
The rest of the month and into early March is looking very warm east of the Rockies
I'm glad we were able to cash in yesterday with some snow
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Post by Worldserieschampions (Chicago) on Feb 17, 2024 19:08:18 GMT -6
The rest of the month and into early March is looking very warm east of the Rockies I'm glad we were able to cash in yesterday with some snow You all have more snow than me this winter. Haven’t had a 4+ inch snow in two winters. Need this SSW to come through for March
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Post by Snowstorm920 on Feb 17, 2024 21:05:59 GMT -6
The airport is up to 11.5" on the year. Not bad. That’s right at our seasonal average using 1991-2020 data
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Post by guyatacomputer - NE St. Peters on Feb 17, 2024 21:14:29 GMT -6
Not sure, the data I pulled from AccuWx Pro shows 3.4" It's correct on the daily summary. 3.4"
They must have corrected. That or I'm more senile than I thought.
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