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Post by landscaper on Jan 30, 2022 14:45:11 GMT -6
We were kidding our selves to think we could see over 12” in St. Louis.
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Post by Frivolousz21 on Jan 30, 2022 14:45:14 GMT -6
1.5" of plain rain on the NAM, round 2 coming in though at the end. Might fair better if it went farther as it would be less suppressed, so might get more sleet/snow then. There will be embedded pockets be of 2.5" of rain in the max rain band of wave 1. PWATS are 200 percent above normal. And possibly the highest on record on the regional sounding records. And the heaviest rain of course gets rolling as soon as we are down to mid 30s
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Post by Snowman99 on Jan 30, 2022 14:47:19 GMT -6
..A Major Winter Storm is expected late Tuesday into Thursday...
Key Messages: 1. Event Occurrence: Confidence is high that a major winter storm will move through the forecast area Tuesday night into Thursday, producing widespread snow accumulations and more limited accumulations of sleet and ice.
2. Impacts: Significant snowfall accumulations above six inches are expected in the forecast area but the exact location of the highest amounts continues to shift, and is still uncertain. Breezy conditions Thursday will make blowing and drifting snow a concern.
3. P-Type: Confidence is low in the timing of precipitation type transition from wintry mix to snow across most of the forecast area. There is concern that the current forecast transitions mixed precipitation to snow too quickly, which would impact snow totals.
4. Longevity/Timing: Confidence is medium that wintry precipitation, including snow, will begin falling Tuesday night into Wednesday morning. Precipitation exit on Thursday remains uncertain given the track and speed of the low.
5. Remaining Uncertainty: The uncertainty in this system can be summed up into two features: the depth and southward expansion of the sub-freezing air Tuesday night into Wednesday, and the location and speed of the low Wednesday into Thursday. Both of these will determine how much snow, sleet, and ice falls and where.
Forecast: Southwesterly flow will become established throughout the atmosphere on Tuesday as a split flow mid-level trough moves through the western CONUS and into the region. Moisture return and warm air advection along this flow, particularly in the lower levels, will make for a warm day on Tuesday ahead of the significant winter storm moving into the region Tuesday night. Details have changed little in the overall synoptic pattern:
The axis of the northern stream trough will swing across the central US-Canada border Tuesday while at the surface a low pressure will slide into southeastern Canada. The low will drag a strong cold front through the mid-Mississippi Valley Tuesday afternoon. Moisture ahead of the front coupled with robust frontogenesis and warm air advection will produce widespread rain ahead of and along the front. The front will stall Tuesday night just to the south of the CWA border, across central Arkansas into the Missouri Bootheel and Ohio River Valley. Isentropic lift and continued warm air advection overrunning the stalled front will renew, or in some areas, continue precipitation across the CWA overnight into Wednesday.
As temperatures below freezing behind the front Tuesday evening, rain will begin to change over to wintry precipitation. A mix of wintry precipitation, including sleet and freezing rain, is expected before the 925-850mb layer cools sufficiently to make the changeover to snow. Areas across the northern CWA are expected to have a very short window of wintry mix, changing over from rain to snow quite rapidly. Areas further south are more uncertain, but overall more likely to see a period of wintry mix before changing over to snow. There is some uncertainty in how long this period of wintry mix will last, while warmer guidance has exhibited a cooling trend to erode the warm nose quicker, guidance is still split on how quickly the warm nose is eroded. The newest guidance has continued to cool surface temperatures Wednesday, and as it stands the high temperature on Wednesday is likely to happen at midnight with continual cooling through the day. Cold air advection along the northeasterly post-frontal flow will eventually succeed in changing precipitation over to snow on Wednesday.
By Wednesday evening the mid-level trough will advance into the mid- Mississippi Valley while an 850 mb low pushes northeast across the lower Mississippi Valley, a classic Midwest heavy snow scenario. The combination of the cyclonic forcing and upper level jet couplet will provide more robust lift for precipitation. The location of the axis of heaviest snowfall is still uncertain, as the track of the 850 mb and surface low have shifted southeast somewhat in recent model runs. The WPC cluster analysis has been indicating a trend among synoptic guidance to pull the low and associated QPF on Thursday southeastward, which would stunt snowfall across the northern CWA. The final location of the 850 mb low track will impact the final location of the axis of heaviest precipitation.
Regardless of where the low is positioned, it will move northeast along the stationary front out of the region Thursday in concert with the northeastward lifting mid-level trough, ending widespread snowfall. The exact speed and timing of the exit of the low is still uncertain, but is expected sometime Thursday.
A robust surface high will push into the region on Thursday, helping clear to push precipitation out of the region. Conditions on Thursday as this high moves into the area will become breezy as the pressure gradient tightens, increasing the risk for blowing and drifting snow. Cold temperatures will linger for a couple of days after this system exits the region.
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Post by Chris Higgins on Jan 30, 2022 14:48:12 GMT -6
Yep it’s right where everything else is maybe a touch warmer. It has freezing rain and sleet most of the day Wednesday temps 25-28 in the metro Which is essentially what I've been thinking. The only way those 20-30 fantasy maps could come true is if each wave overlapped... which is unlikely. The cold should be a bit further south with each wave. The first wave looks to put down a sizeable amount of sleet for the I-70 cooridor with significant impacts likely during the day Wednesday for much of the area. Conditions will deteorate further Wednesday evening as the next wave pushes up from the southwest. This could be some very intense snowfall given the more favorable thermodynamic profile. I've been playing with a map... but it sure is confusing looking with all the possibiliites. Something that paints the following.. Region of 6"+ of mostly snow Region of 6"+ of snow and sleet / some zr Region of 1"+ of sleet/snow and 1/4"+ of zr
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Post by ndolan387 on Jan 30, 2022 14:55:17 GMT -6
Snowstorm just beat ya Snowman w/ the NWS post haha.
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Post by Snowstorm920 on Jan 30, 2022 14:57:52 GMT -6
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Post by yypc on Jan 30, 2022 15:01:35 GMT -6
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Post by mchafin on Jan 30, 2022 15:02:42 GMT -6
Someone needs to literally and most importantly, figuratively, lower the temperature around here.
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Post by bdgwx on Jan 30, 2022 15:06:02 GMT -6
1/30 19Z NBM KSTL 10-90% = 0.9" to 19.9" 25-75% = 2.6" to 12.3" 50% = 6.6" S = 7.3"
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Post by Frivolousz21 on Jan 30, 2022 15:07:27 GMT -6
At the end of the run. The NAM has the H750-H850 essentially stationary running straight through Central Missouri in the West Central Illinois. In fact by the end of the run it's starting just lightly moved North. That could just be wobbles. But then you look at age 5 like what the hell where is that confluence that was all over east of us for days There is nothing to cause cold air in the mid levels to drop down while that precipitation shield is moving Northeast nothing. After we get screwed this week with flash flooding and sleet. You guys won't have to listen to my negativity cause I'm done for the winter picture url
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Post by pbc12871 on Jan 30, 2022 15:10:46 GMT -6
It's hard to get too excited when Frivs isn't on board.
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Post by Snowman99 on Jan 30, 2022 15:13:15 GMT -6
lol, i highly doubt there's flash flooding
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Post by landscaper on Jan 30, 2022 15:15:13 GMT -6
I said this yesterday or Friday how often does the NAM start out in its long range as the coldest only to trend as the warmest then as we get closer it settles back down. It’s the NAM at 60-84 hours , it wouldn’t shock me a bit if it’s one of the coldest by tomorrow morning.
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Post by cnagel3 - Festus on Jan 30, 2022 15:16:18 GMT -6
I’ve got a new idea…..we ignore models and just act like and discuss every storm as missing us or being all rain, then when we get 2 inches, we act like we won the lottery vs looking at models and buying into the idea that we are going to get a foot of snow and be disappointed when we get 6”!!! Two weeks ago we would have been in heaven with 3-4”. With this one everyone is getting mad that it is going to be more than that?!
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Post by landscaper on Jan 30, 2022 15:18:10 GMT -6
18z RGEM still looks awesome about the same temp profile it’s had the whole time . Nice transition from rain to sleet to snow early Wednesday morning
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Post by mchafin on Jan 30, 2022 15:19:22 GMT -6
1/30 19Z NBM KSTL 10-90% = 0.9" to 19.9" 25-75% = 2.6" to 12.3" 50% = 6.6" S = 7.3" Where does this output come from?
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Post by bdgwx on Jan 30, 2022 15:21:35 GMT -6
1/30 19Z NBM KSTL 10-90% = 0.9" to 19.9" 25-75% = 2.6" to 12.3" 50% = 6.6" S = 7.3" Where does this output come from? www.weather.gov/mdl/nbm_text
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Post by Jeffmw on Jan 30, 2022 15:22:38 GMT -6
First everyone was excited about this system on Wednesday what happened?
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Post by landscaper on Jan 30, 2022 15:26:41 GMT -6
I’m still excited steady as she goes
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Post by Snowman99 on Jan 30, 2022 15:27:03 GMT -6
i mean everyone still is excited. What are you reading? There's 1 person not excited and when he isn't it's not the same..when he is, it's contagious
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Post by landscaper on Jan 30, 2022 15:28:00 GMT -6
Also 18z icon continues to be a beast, it’s been very consistent which sometimes it bounces around
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Post by Chris Higgins on Jan 30, 2022 15:29:21 GMT -6
First everyone was excited about this system on Wednesday what happened? Nothing at all has happened. Everything is pretty while right where it should be. Folks get excited about the fantasy maps. But the reality is we are still on track for a high impact, major winter event. Amounts could approach 12" in some of my viewing area... most likely north of I-70...with sleet holding totals down further south. If you wanted the fantasy, then you are sure to be dissappointed. But if you are realistic with expectations... then this system should make many of the snow lovers happy.
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Post by The Commish- Lake St. Louis on Jan 30, 2022 15:32:50 GMT -6
I think if most of us got 6+ inches of winter, we would call that a decent storm. We should always try to lead with our head and not our heart as there is always that level of disappointment. I look at anything above 6” as a bonus
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Post by jmg378s on Jan 30, 2022 15:33:42 GMT -6
First everyone was excited about this system on Wednesday what happened? Many of us are still very optimistic. I see absolutely no reason today to believe 6+" of snow/sleet won't happen in or near the metro. Further south where rain and sleet hang on longer gets questionable but there's some promise with 850mb low currently modeled to pass south of Cape G as long as you're not too far south.
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Post by Spaz(Wrestlerdude) on Jan 30, 2022 15:35:27 GMT -6
My wife already booked a hotel for this week so she can get down town to children’s for work before the hospital fills it up.
Sorry, storm is canceled.
2 more weeks
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Post by Snowman99 on Jan 30, 2022 15:36:21 GMT -6
First everyone was excited about this system on Wednesday what happened? Nothing at all has happened. Everything is pretty while right where it should be. Folks get excited about the fantasy maps. But the reality is we are still on track for a high impact, major winter event. Amounts could approach 12" in some of my viewing area... most likely north of I-70...with sleet holding totals down further south. If you wanted the fantasy, then you are sure to be dissappointed. But if you are realistic with expectations... then this system should make many of the snow lovers happy.
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Post by Snowstorm920 on Jan 30, 2022 15:45:27 GMT -6
Day 4 WSSI is already highlighting major impacts for portions of the area pretty notable this far out
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Post by bellevillewxguy on Jan 30, 2022 15:55:23 GMT -6
Sneaky little upper level disturbance passing through Thursday night into Friday AM could spit out another couple inches, especially along and south of I-70. Just saying.
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bob
Junior Forecaster
Posts: 331
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Post by bob on Jan 30, 2022 15:59:45 GMT -6
Hope 00z models are good. Has storm been sampled?
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Post by ndolan387 on Jan 30, 2022 16:01:39 GMT -6
At the end of the run. The NAM has the H750-H850 essentially stationary running straight through Central Missouri in the West Central Illinois. In fact by the end of the run it's starting just lightly moved North. That could just be wobbles. But then you look at age 5 like what the hell where is that confluence that was all over east of us for days There is nothing to cause cold air in the mid levels to drop down while that precipitation shield is moving Northeast nothing. After we get screwed this week with flash flooding and sleet. You guys won't have to listen to my negativity cause I'm done for the winter picture urlOne model run and you're taking it to heart. I understand you are planning for the worst possible scenario for us to get no snow, but you can't put all your eggs in one basket (NAM). Ensembles are the way to go right now. There's a strong consensus for a high impact winter storm! We do live at 38*N latitude and not 45-50* N latitude so it's hard for us to get 6+ in snow storms haha. We all love your input and are one of the most intelligent individuals on this board (much more intelligent than me)!
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