csafozzie
Wishcaster
Wildwood, MO. Jefferson, Franklin and St Louis County borders
Posts: 139
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Post by csafozzie on Aug 18, 2014 10:32:21 GMT -6
Just because a man is unarmed does not mean he is not dangerous. A tazer is a nice tool and an effective deterrent in most cases but it is not always practicable. In this case IF the suspect had been going for the officers gun and the officer managed to maintain possession then it would most probably been the weapon most readily available to the officer. If the suspect had run away but decided to charge back at the officer that particular weapon may have been the only choice he had to defend himself. Even at 35' away a charging person would have reach the officer well before he had time to holster his sidearm and prepare the tazer for a response.
Also if the officer had been assaulted just moments before during a scuffle for his weapon he was hurting, perhaps a little dazed, and most likely his adrenaline was up. Faced with a similar situation I think most peoples judgment may be a little clouded by anger and fear, even if you ha been extensively trained for such encounters. To judge the intent and actions of a person who puts their life on the line every day without anything but hearsay evidence and preliminary reports goes way beyond responsibility, it borders on criminal. This officer may have acted rashly and unprofessional in this situation or he may have truly been in fear for his life, I really have no idea. One thing I don't believe is he got into his patrol car that day and thought to himself, "I know what I'll do today, I'll gun down an innocent person just because I am a cop and I have a gun.".
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Post by mchafin on Aug 18, 2014 11:24:48 GMT -6
The facts remain uncertain, and while I tend to believe the Bob McCulluch does a decent job at his job, I believe an independent prosecutor should be called in. There are too many unknowns and putting a polarizing person at the helm of the case could do some serious damage to an already tumultuous situation. If I'm not mistaken, once a grand jury is in place, and they start hearing facts, facts that are already in dispute, isn't that evidence and what they hear sealed, meaning, we have no idea what he's telling them? I'm not an attorney, so I may b coming out of left field but this has potential bombshell/powder keg written all over it.
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Post by Snowman99 on Aug 18, 2014 17:58:40 GMT -6
Wonder if the horrible heat later in the week will add fuel to the fire. It does happen.
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Post by guyatacomputer - NE St. Peters on Aug 18, 2014 18:16:05 GMT -6
Wonder if the horrible heat later in the week will add fuel to the fire. It does happen. I thought of that, too. Many of the riots in the late 60's had an extra level and enger because of the heat and humidity. |
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Post by Frivolousz21 on Aug 18, 2014 20:26:35 GMT -6
The situation is terrible. There being no dash cam and the massive delay in picking up Mr. Browns body just leads to folks thinking a cover up was in the works. I am not saying there was. But the lack of a camera is very alarming.
Cameras should be mandatory. In fact I would consider dual camera's face front and back. The cameras also need to be hooked up thru wifi and the data be sent to the police station and a third party in near real time. The third party would not be allowed to "leak" the video under any circumstances but would have it encase of these kind of situations whether the officer is attacked or a civilian. For evidence in any investigation.
There should be no excuses if a patrol vehicle doesn't have a working camera it can not be used.
Unless there is compelling evidence the officer assassinated Mr. Brown I hope he doesn't get charged. It's to murky to charge him. Throwing the book at him won't change anything. Learning from the mistakes made here will. Because of civil unrest and excessive force I would suspend the officer for at least two years with paid leave and possible transfer him.
Or terminate his employment with a hefty compensation package on top of the suspension and paid leave. I am sure he would be able to get a job in another police district. It's more then fair IMO. But you can't convict the officer beyond a reasonable doubt without video in this case because of the grey area he has as a police officer and as a citizen being potentially assaulted by another citizen.
Some of the reactions from so many white people is honestly embarrassing me. I am not black I didn't grow up black in the inner city. I can't form any justification or judgement on why a cultural group would have certain perceptions about their own reality that from my POV may seem silly. I am not talking about the folks protesting for Darren Wilson due process. But the extremist vile that is being spewed towards the inner city populace.
It's easy to say there is tons of Hippocrates because of the extreme inner city violence. But we also have to remember that the people who live in that culture inside that arena of terror were born into it. The world they know was presented to them like that.
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Post by Frivolousz21 on Aug 19, 2014 3:12:39 GMT -6
This is becoming a nightmare.
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Post by pbc12871 on Aug 19, 2014 8:23:35 GMT -6
I do not know if the heat will make things worse, but a good cold snap would end the overnight shenanigans.
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Post by Jeffmw on Aug 19, 2014 9:21:31 GMT -6
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Post by Frivolousz21 on Aug 19, 2014 17:50:27 GMT -6
That definitely puts an end to any trial. |
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Post by jeepers on Aug 19, 2014 20:24:26 GMT -6
IF that is true, he's been having his face surgically put back together.
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Post by Frivolousz21 on Aug 20, 2014 1:32:44 GMT -6
it also explains why his aim was so terrible and erratic and why he felt it necessary to fire so many times.
A police officer family member told me he thinks the chances of there not being a dash cam are slim to none. His words not mine. But he also said if that is the case reasons for not revealing that information don't necessarily lead to it being a police cover up.
After the way things unfolded how would a video of Mike Brown assaulted and pummeling the cop look then of him running back at him after taunting him?
This is already devastating for the community.
If and I mean big if there is a video of Mike Brown doing all of that it would probably make things way worse even tho it would be the truth.
The lack of info form the police the first week surely played into presuming possible excessive force but maybe they were trying to prevent this from getting even more out of hand.
Sometimes the right thing to do is not always the most honorable and truthful.
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Post by jeepers on Aug 20, 2014 7:44:50 GMT -6
We don't know if any of that happened, but...under circumstances without injury, you're going to have an adrenaline rush (fight or flight) which can by itself, cause limb shaking and there is going to be fear to control that could exacerbate that. Add physical pain, and your heart is now probably pumping like crazy. Then add moving target, and accuracy is going out the window.
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Post by lizard7151971 on Aug 20, 2014 10:27:04 GMT -6
it also explains why his aim was so terrible and erratic and why he felt it necessary to fire so many times. A police officer family member told me he thinks the chances of there not being a dash cam are slim to none. His words not mine. But he also said if that is the case reasons for not revealing that information don't necessarily lead to it being a police cover up. After the way things unfolded how would a video of Mike Brown assaulted and pummeling the cop look then of him running back at him after taunting him? This is already devastating for the community. If and I mean big if there is a video of Mike Brown doing all of that it would probably make things way worse even tho it would be the truth. The lack of info form the police the first week surely played into presuming possible excessive force but maybe they were trying to prevent this from getting even more out of hand. Sometimes the right thing to do is not always the most honorable and truthful. The big thing, IF there was a dash cam tape, some people would HAVE to answer on why it was not released earlier. It could have prevented a lot of the stuff that has happen since day 1. To release it now (If it went in favor of the officer), would be the equivalent of saying "NANNY NANNY BOO BOO" to the protesters. |
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csafozzie
Wishcaster
Wildwood, MO. Jefferson, Franklin and St Louis County borders
Posts: 139
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Post by csafozzie on Aug 20, 2014 11:29:01 GMT -6
The Ferguson Police department does NOT have dashcams in their cars. They recently received a grant for them and have two of them, they just have not installed them as of date. I am sure that will be a number one priority now. blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2014/08/momentum_grows_for_police_dashboard_cameras_body_cams_in_wake_of_ferguson.phpEven of there had been a dashcam, unless it was pointed right at the action it may not of captured what happened. Body cameras, which I noticed on the front of the body armor of some of the St. Louis county police during the riots, would be more useful. In this day and age of technology these small cameras are inexpensive and would serve as a useful tool in helping determine what happens during an altercation such as this, and I think would help curb police overstepping their boundaries as well. As far as the fracture goes, I would wait for a more reliable source than someones blog. A fracture such as this would require hospitalization at the least, perhaps even surgery if it was sever enough. The bruising and swollen face would be hard to hide, though. As far as releasing information goes I would imagine since it is an ongoing investigation the would release as little as possible in this case. Fozzlea |
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Post by Jeffmw on Aug 20, 2014 13:13:21 GMT -6
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Post by guyatacomputer - NE St. Peters on Aug 20, 2014 15:40:57 GMT -6
I'm really getting concerned about what is going to happen if the grand jury finds insufficient evidence to support charges.
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Post by SnowManJoe - Wentzville, MO on Aug 20, 2014 19:57:49 GMT -6
I'm really getting concerned about what is going to happen if the grand jury finds insufficient evidence to support charges. It will be scary indeed. I feel like even if they release iron clad evidence in favor of the cop, Ferguson will erupt if they don't prosecute. |
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Post by guyatacomputer - NE St. Peters on Aug 20, 2014 20:19:37 GMT -6
It will be scary indeed. I feel like even if they release iron clad evidence in favor of the cop, Ferguson will erupt if they don't prosecute. No doubt there would be claims of a cover up which would just fuel the feelings of mistrust that has exacerbated the whole thing. |
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Post by lizard7151971 on Aug 21, 2014 1:36:15 GMT -6
It will be scary indeed. I feel like even if they release iron clad evidence in favor of the cop, Ferguson will erupt if they don't prosecute. No doubt there would be claims of a cover up which would just fuel the feelings of mistrust that has exacerbated the whole thing. You know, I follow a lot of different feeds and pages. I have heard a lot of people claiming they have their own CI's that are giving them info. I will say from reading all them, I am not surprised UFO's or Kennedy has not popped up in them. But I agree with most, the community of Ferguson should be ready! If he is found to have acted within reason, it will be taken bad. If he is found guilty, then the celebration, may also result in nothing good. And lets hope they are not playing the waiting game, thinking everyone will return back to back to normal life. Think about it.. That plane that went missing months ago, that "Crashed" going 200+ MPH into the ocean and never was found... How much do we hear about that? |
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Post by guyatacomputer - NE St. Peters on Aug 21, 2014 6:01:36 GMT -6
You know, I follow a lot of different feeds and pages. I have heard a lot of people claiming they have their own CI's that are giving them info. I will say from reading all them, I am not surprised UFO's or Kennedy has not popped up in them. But I agree with most, the community of Ferguson should be ready! If he is found to have acted within reason, it will be taken bad. If he is found guilty, then the celebration, may also result in nothing good. And lets hope they are not playing the waiting game, thinking everyone will return back to back to normal life. Think about it.. That plane that went missing months ago, that "Crashed" going 200+ MPH into the ocean and never was found... How much do we hear about that? We will indeed be hearing about the events of the last 2 weeks until we die. Just as the Trayvon Martin events constantly resurface. And there will be national news special reports Ferguson: One Year Later or Ferguson: 10 Years After. |
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Post by lizard7151971 on Aug 21, 2014 15:55:08 GMT -6
Ok, was wondering if someone from that area could check this out. In this posting, it claims that Ferguson has Dash and Body cams, and they have just recently acquired the footage.... Post |
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csafozzie
Wishcaster
Wildwood, MO. Jefferson, Franklin and St Louis County borders
Posts: 139
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Post by csafozzie on Aug 22, 2014 4:48:22 GMT -6
Ok, was wondering if someone from that area could check this out. In this posting, it claims that Ferguson has Dash and Body cams, and they have just recently acquired the footage.... PostYou might want to read that a little more carefully. "The source also said the dashboard and body cameras, which might have recorded crucial evidence, had been ordered by Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson, but had only recently arrived and had not yet been deployed." The structure of the sentence is confusing, but basically it says the cameras COULD have captured what happen IF they had been installed. Ferguson has two dashcams and body cams, but they have not been deployed as of yet. If they had been a lot of speculation may have been eliminated by these devices. In areas where body cameras have been deployed incidence of police brutality and the complaints of people about police misconduct fall by a large percent. According to the NY Times when Rialto, California began requiring their officers to where body camera in 2012 the number of complaints filed against officers fell by 88 percent compared with the previous 12 months. Use of force by officers fell by almost 60 percent over the same period. The fall of complaints was not only due to the offers being more passive, but the cameras help eliminated false reports of police brutality as well. And I love this quote by the Police Chief; “When you put a camera on a police officer, they tend to behave a little better, follow the rules a little better,” Chief Farrar said. “And if a citizen knows the officer is wearing a camera, chances are the citizen will behave a little better.” As far as I can see body cameras are a win-win situation for both sides. www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/us/in-california-a-champion-for-police-cameras.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0And as far as the reports go about the officers injuries go, nothing has still been confirmed. One thing I did learn in college that has always stuck with me, look at your sources carefully and make sure they are as unbiased as possible. A site that claims they are a "Rag Tag Bunch of Conservative Misfits" probably is not an unbiased website and should be taken with a grain of salt.  Fozzie |
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Post by Snowman99 on Aug 22, 2014 8:10:17 GMT -6
Yeah, I made the mistake of posting that 'broken orbital eye socket' article on FB. Then it was brought to my attention it was by some right wing nut job who likes to make up crap. CNN basically said..it didn't happen, though he did have a swollen face.
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Post by Jeffmw on Aug 22, 2014 14:58:54 GMT -6
Sorry I don't trust CNN or the NY Times or MOST of the Main Stream Media. Most of the MSM has already tried and found The Officer guilty from day one. The site that first said it wasn't real is not even a news site. The same main stream media that has convicted this officer also convicted the Duke Lacrosse Collage Students. convicted and they where 100% innocent. So were going to trust the same media with this? sorry no.
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Post by Snowman99 on Aug 22, 2014 16:20:13 GMT -6
Of course you don't believe it. It's been dismantled by several sources. The guy made it up. Where's the pictures? He would have needed surgery. lmao  |
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Post by Jeffmw on Aug 22, 2014 17:11:33 GMT -6
Yea by all the news sources who already found Officer Wilson Guilty. Also who are to chicken to even suggest Officer Wilson shooting might be in self defense.
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Post by Snowman99 on Aug 22, 2014 17:23:18 GMT -6
Closed minded people crack me up.
I have seen literally dozens of news sources. Maybe one or 2 say that wilson is guilty. I'm not saying he is or isn't. But Fox news is not the place to get "fair and balanced" news. Nor ultra right wing sites. Open mindedness is essential in all things.
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Post by cozpregon on Aug 22, 2014 17:31:37 GMT -6
It is not just the right Snowman
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Post by lizard7151971 on Aug 22, 2014 19:07:16 GMT -6
Ok, was wondering if someone from that area could check this out. In this posting, it claims that Ferguson has Dash and Body cams, and they have just recently acquired the footage.... PostYou might want to read that a little more carefully. "The source also said the dashboard and body cameras, which might have recorded crucial evidence, had been ordered by Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson, but had only recently arrived and had not yet been deployed." The structure of the sentence is confusing, but basically it says the cameras COULD have captured what happen IF they had been installed. Ferguson has two dashcams and body cams, but they have not been deployed as of yet. If they had been a lot of speculation may have been eliminated by these devices. In areas where body cameras have been deployed incidence of police brutality and the complaints of people about police misconduct fall by a large percent. According to the NY Times when Rialto, California began requiring their officers to where body camera in 2012 the number of complaints filed against officers fell by 88 percent compared with the previous 12 months. Use of force by officers fell by almost 60 percent over the same period. The fall of complaints was not only due to the offers being more passive, but the cameras help eliminated false reports of police brutality as well. And I love this quote by the Police Chief; “When you put a camera on a police officer, they tend to behave a little better, follow the rules a little better,” Chief Farrar said. “And if a citizen knows the officer is wearing a camera, chances are the citizen will behave a little better.” As far as I can see body cameras are a win-win situation for both sides. www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/us/in-california-a-champion-for-police-cameras.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0And as far as the reports go about the officers injuries go, nothing has still been confirmed. One thing I did learn in college that has always stuck with me, look at your sources carefully and make sure they are as unbiased as possible. A site that claims they are a "Rag Tag Bunch of Conservative Misfits" probably is not an unbiased website and should be taken with a grain of salt. Fozzie That's why I put it out there. I didn't quite believe it, but wanted someone else to give their opinion, to see if I was on the right track or if I was way off... |
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csafozzie
Wishcaster
Wildwood, MO. Jefferson, Franklin and St Louis County borders
Posts: 139
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Post by csafozzie on Aug 22, 2014 19:45:55 GMT -6
A blog is not a reliable source no matter what views it embraces. A stated "reliable source" is NOT a reliable source in my eyes. How many times have news organizations, on both sides of the political spectrum, been burned by "reliable sources". Even CNN, who is disputing this claim can only say they have it from "reliable sources". Yet they hold more credibility with me on their reliable sources than someone who writes from their basement and calls themselves a journalist. Does not mean they are right or the person who rights the blog is wrong, just that an established news organization such as CNN has more credibility in my eyes.
And as far as the "liberal" media goes, I am so tired of hearing that statement whenever someone does not agree with the news or when the news does not cover the story you think they should or the way you think they should. Does the mainstream media tend to lean a little toward the left? I do believe it does. But they will report a story no matter what it is as long as it gets ratings. If this injury were true the media would be all over it, as it would be another sensational piece to add to this media circus.
I find it amusing that the same people who are denouncing CNN's report that the eye socket injury is not true are the same people that were ecstatic when CNN confirmed that the story told by Officer Wilson's friend to a local talk show matched the report the police had. Sounds a little like the protesters, only believing what they want to believe and denouncing anything does not fit in with their idea of what really happened.
Fozzie
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