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Post by Snowman99 on Aug 17, 2014 9:44:14 GMT -6
Here's a place to talk about all things Ferguson. Go at it.  |
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Post by guyatacomputer - NE St. Peters on Aug 17, 2014 11:20:03 GMT -6
As someone who grew up nearby in Jennings and had several friends that lived and worked very close to the center of this weeks events, and we played in that area, as well as going to high school nearby, too, I just feel so bad for what the country is seeing of that area. It used to be so different. I know it's been changing over the years since I left but it still is very sad.
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Post by Jeffmw on Aug 17, 2014 11:59:04 GMT -6
Everything we know about the Brown shooting case here is what I think might have happened. IF It was Brown in the video. When the Officer pulled up to him and the officer did not know Brown was wanted for questioning. Brown could have thought the officer was coming to arrest him and things just got out of hand from there. Which means just a chance encounter no one was out to do anything just a tragic encounter that went wrong. Does this sound like that's what prob may have happened?
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Post by mchafin on Aug 17, 2014 13:53:15 GMT -6
What will be key are truthful eyewitness interviews conducted by the FBI. Regardless of feelings, what the FBI needs are accurate depictions of the events as witnessed by those either directly involved, or witnessed. What will not be helpful is assumption or feelings about what should or should not have happened.
If I had a crystal ball, I am foreseeing no charges filed against the officer as some of the eyewitness accounts (if I believe the horribly inaccurate social media) contradict the story as told by others who witnessed it and also corroborate the account given by the officer. That said, I haven't read any depositions by anyone so this is all based on conjecture and limited readings as I have been trying to find credible information available on the interwebs. The internet used to be useful, now it's filled with so much garbage that trying to identify quality credible information is like trying to find a three-legged ballerina (Dell Griffith modified quote from Planes, Trains, & Automobiles).
What I don't like are the calls for "No Justice No Peace". We need peace in order to allow the justice to work.
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Post by pbc12871 on Aug 17, 2014 15:30:17 GMT -6
The latitude law enforcement is given these days regarding the use of deadly force is considerable. If the past means anything, this officer will not spend any time in prison. For the most part all an officer has to do is say is that they were in fear for their life. How in the world can you prove or disprove that? This will not end well.
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Post by lizard7151971 on Aug 17, 2014 17:15:15 GMT -6
If you want to read some interesting stuff on this, follow @opferguson on twitter. They are part of the Anonymous group that has been taking down the websites. Some of it is pretty radical, but some is pretty informative. They were the ones that orginised the huge protests a few days ago, that was spread over 57 cities, over several states, and a few places over seas.
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Post by lizard7151971 on Aug 17, 2014 17:25:58 GMT -6
The latitude law enforcement is given these days regarding the use of deadly force is considerable. If the past means anything, this officer will not spend any time in prison. For the most part all an officer has to do is say is that they were in fear for their life. How in the world can you prove or disprove that? This will not end well. IDT it will end well for him at all. In prison, he will be hunted down, and if he is found not guilty or don't serve any time, I think the city of Ferguson and him will be in trouble. Like Chris mention in the post in the previous thread, Truth or no truth, People don't want to hear it. They have their mind made up. Too bad there was not a Dash cam in that car. This would have been a cut and clear case now. |
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Post by Chris Higgins on Aug 17, 2014 18:00:38 GMT -6
Everything we know about the Brown shooting case here is what I think might have happened. IF It was Brown in the video. When the Officer pulled up to him and the officer did not know Brown was wanted for questioning. Brown could have thought the officer was coming to arrest him and things just got out of hand from there. Which means just a chance encounter no one was out to do anything just a tragic encounter that went wrong. Does this sound like that's what prob may have happened? I just wrote up and was about to "create post" with my thoughts on what may have happened...but then thought better of it considering I may still be called on to report on this story. What I can say is that I think it is safe to say that we are all starting to form some timelines in our own minds and create our own "key questions" for this case. That is natural and to be expected. I just wish everyone would tone it down and let the process unfold. There can be no rush to judgement about the officer as there can be no rush to judgement about Mr. Brown and his alleged involvement in the robbery at the convience store. We simply don't have the facts on any of this and what's being spewed on social media...when put up against the REAL facts has proven once again to be far from accurate. One thing I can say is that like it or not...Ferguson did have to release that video. Every TV station in St. Louis requested it almost immediately and I believe the PD has a 72 hour timeframe to produce it. How it was released can be argued for good reason. But the fact that it had to be released seems undisputable...at least as a matter of law from what I understand. Of course...I'm not a laywer so I could be wrong too. |
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Post by guyatacomputer - NE St. Peters on Aug 17, 2014 18:01:54 GMT -6
What I don't like are the calls for "No Justice No Peace". We need peace in order to allow the justice to work. Excellent point. By the logic of the sentiment behind the chant the officer has already been tried and convicted. How is that justice? It then follows logically that unless the judicial system reaches the same conclusion rioting and looting would be a daily routine event. |
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Post by guyatacomputer - NE St. Peters on Aug 17, 2014 18:08:06 GMT -6
I just wrote up and was about to "create post" with my thoughts on what may have happened...but then thought better of it considering I may still be called on to report on this story. What I can say is that I think it is safe to say that we are all starting to form some timelines in our own minds and create our own "key questions" for this case. That is natural and to be expected. I just wish everyone would tone it down and let the process unfold. There can be no rush to judgement about the officer as there can be no rush to judgement about Mr. Brown and his alleged involvement in the robbery at the convience store. We simply don't have the facts on any of this and what's being spewed on social media...when put up against the REAL facts has proven once again to be far from accurate. One thing I can say is that like it or not...Ferguson did have to release that video. Every TV station in St. Louis requested it almost immediately and I believe the PD has a 72 hour timeframe to produce it. How it was released can be argued for good reason. But the fact that it had to be released seems undisputable...at least as a matter of law from what I understand. Of course...I'm not a laywer so I could be wrong too. I agree that we should all try to wait for the facts of the series of events to come out. Ihave repeatedly told bepople on social media that I don't know whther the policeman was in the right or the wrong. And I will probably not serve on the jury so I will likely never know. What I am surprised at is the number of people who believe that unless you agree with them and their opinion based on sketchy facts and half truths you are immediately against them. There's very little allowance for someone with a an "IO want to hear all the fact" mentality. |
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Post by lizard7151971 on Aug 17, 2014 18:13:19 GMT -6
Just scene this on FB. Umm, may shed a little light on this. It is a "Just released" amateur video that was taken just after the shooting (Warning, you see the body in the background). It is a Witness describing what he saw. I will say no more, and let you all be the judge. Link |
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Post by Chris Higgins on Aug 17, 2014 18:31:47 GMT -6
Here is the problem with this video...and I'm not taking sides...just playing devils advocate. It will be very hard to convince anyone that it might not have been doctored unless the person who shot the video in the first place will testify that it is legit.
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Post by jeepers on Aug 17, 2014 18:33:41 GMT -6
I have plenty of thoughts but think that I need a lot more information before I come to a solid conclusion. Right now I'm sitting with aggression on the part of Mr Brown because he thought that he was about to get arrested for assaulting the store clerk or a cop that might have jumped the gun on his reaction.
Either way, the whole 'no justice, no peace' and the behavior of a lot of folks in that area (looting, arson), the fact that there are an unknown quantity of people from out of town with questionable motives, and my history of living on the coast...I have serious concerns as to what is going to happen in the future in Ferguson.
What I would say is that folks from around the STL Metro need to pay attention and avoid the hot area if possible until this situation is resolved. At the very least, don't play 'it can't happen here' with this one. Hope that I'm wrong but my 'community unrest meter' has it's needle in the orange zone. Won't take much more to slam it into red. /jmo
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Post by Chris Higgins on Aug 17, 2014 18:34:46 GMT -6
And it now appears the website is down because I can't get it to play.
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Post by lizard7151971 on Aug 17, 2014 18:36:51 GMT -6
And it now appears the website is down because I can't get it to play. I just got it to play again. It does say it has over 3 million views, so may be congestion.. |
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Post by cozpregon on Aug 17, 2014 19:46:24 GMT -6
Saw the video on Facebook yesterday. So disturbing seeing him on the ground.
The bad thing about this now is the protesters only form of justice... IMO... Is for the officer to be thrown in jail and to throw away the key. Just don't see how this ends well.
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Post by lizard7151971 on Aug 17, 2014 19:49:21 GMT -6
Saw the video on Facebook yesterday. So disturbing seeing him on the ground. The bad thing about this now is the protesters only form of justice... IMO... Is for the officer to be thrown in jail and to throw away the key. Just don't see how this ends well. What I don't understand about it though, is even if he was doing what the video says, then don't most officers have tazers? |
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Post by SnowManJoe - Wentzville, MO on Aug 17, 2014 20:29:59 GMT -6
There are two key pieces I need before making a judgement.
#1 The officer's side of the story - so far all of this seems to primarily be based on the words of Brown's friend.
#2 the autopsy report(s) - specifically if they can determine how close Mr. Brown was to the officer when he was shot. Distance makes a huge difference into how threatened the officer may have been.
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Post by lizard7151971 on Aug 17, 2014 21:06:26 GMT -6
That must be one important football game for Fox not to break in.... Other networks have...
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modracer
Weather Intern
MASCOUTAH, Illinois
Posts: 835
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Post by modracer on Aug 17, 2014 21:10:15 GMT -6
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Post by lizard7151971 on Aug 17, 2014 22:42:29 GMT -6
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Post by guyatacomputer - NE St. Peters on Aug 17, 2014 23:30:28 GMT -6
There are two key pieces I need before making a judgement. #1 The officer's side of the story - so far all of this seems to primarily be based on the words of Brown's friend. #2 the autopsy report(s) - specifically if they can determine how close Mr. Brown was to the officer when he was shot. Distance makes a huge difference into how threatened the officer may have been. On #2 - also where the bullets struck the body. If in the front it means Brown was facing or going toward the officer. This would discredit the story that he was walking away and stopped. |
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Post by lizard7151971 on Aug 17, 2014 23:44:21 GMT -6
Chris is reporting live now.. So they are running low on reporters.. LOL
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Post by Jeffmw on Aug 17, 2014 23:52:00 GMT -6
I wasn't trying to take either side with my comment just saying I believe it was just a tragic encounter not deliberate or anything like that.
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Post by Jeffmw on Aug 18, 2014 1:03:04 GMT -6
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Post by Chris Higgins on Aug 18, 2014 1:54:16 GMT -6
5 of 6 wounds were from the front...6th (top of head) was not certain. So one thing we know.. He was most definitely not shot while running away. At the very least he had turned around.
Yes.. Pressed back into reporting tonight. It's all hands on deck. My coworkers are exhausted so I'm glad I can pitch in and help them out.
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Post by Frivolousz21 on Aug 18, 2014 5:22:01 GMT -6
So if a police officer feels threatened they are allowed to unload an entire clip into an unarmed civilian without any consideration of immobilizing the threat rather than blowing the threat away. That's pretty scary to give a "peace keeper" that kind of leeway. If a veteran officer can't keep himself together enough to blast unarmed folks away they are unfit to be a police officer. It's one thing for the officer to shoot a person once in total desperation if they are face to face. It's quite another to pump them with bullets one after another after another after another after another after another after another after another. Does this mean when young people get drunk at the landing and a kid pushes an officer he can unload his clip in self defense? Protect and Serve? I would give the officer a pension package and fire him. Then definite look into developing better projectile stun/sedation weapons for these officers like the military is developing. There will always be a grey area. But you can't have a cop unloading a clip into an unarmed man. Just can't. There has to be another way. I'd also give these officers more intense training on how to keep their head on straight and have better situational awareness. |
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nrs2420
Wishcaster
Pacific, MO
Posts: 227 
Snowfall Events: It has snowed several times.
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Post by nrs2420 on Aug 18, 2014 9:17:13 GMT -6
If I'm in a situation where I feel my life is threatened, you better bet I will unload my magazine into that threat or at least use about half my magazine which is 6 to 7 shots. I will then reload if needed and be ready if another threat is around. I don't want any chance of that threat being able to harm me. It's my life or his. I don't care if he was armed or not if he was coming at me and didn't stop when a gun was pulled on him. This all changes if the threat goes away when a gun is pulled though.
By the way it's a magazine not a clip. Pet peeve of mine.
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Post by lizard7151971 on Aug 18, 2014 9:39:44 GMT -6
If I'm in a situation where I feel my life is threatened, you better bet I will unload my magazine into that threat or at least use about half my magazine which is 6 to 7 shots. I will then reload if needed and be ready if another threat is around. I don't want any chance of that threat being able to harm me. It's my life or his. I don't care if he was armed or not if he was coming at me and didn't stop when a gun was pulled on him. This all changes if the threat goes away when a gun is pulled though. By the way it's a magazine not a clip. Pet peeve of mine. I understand what you are saying. What I am failing to see though, if the reports are true, and from this morning's press conference, some of the reports of him being 35' away is looking more and more true. Why not a Tazer? I also seen the size of this cop. Where not a big guy, he looks to be fit. I really see (Now remember, I am basing this off the information we know so far.) no reason this officer could not have used a tazer to protect himself. Now if it was Brown and his friend charging him, then maybe the use of his regular gun could have been warranted. BUT let me say this, I am no way saying who is right or wrong in this situation. There is just not enough information released to the public to make a certain decision. I am just debating the main part of this situation, of an unarmed individual (And somewhat knowledge of police protocol), of why lethal force was warranted. |
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nrs2420
Wishcaster
Pacific, MO
Posts: 227
Snowfall Events: It has snowed several times.
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Post by nrs2420 on Aug 18, 2014 10:11:56 GMT -6
I honestly can't say about the tazer part. I don't know much about them. I'm just giving my opinion on the number of shots. I too agree there is not enough information and at this point everything is speculation.
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