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Post by cozpregon on Aug 9, 2022 20:28:15 GMT -6
The National Weather Service said Friday’s 1.47 inches of rain is considered a 1,000-year event, which means there’s a 1.1% chance of it happening in any given year.
Brilliant
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Post by tedrick65 on Aug 9, 2022 20:37:47 GMT -6
The National Weather Service said Friday’s 1.47 inches of rain is considered a 1,000-year event, which means there’s a 1.1% chance of it happening in any given year. Brilliant Really?
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Post by BRTNWXMAN on Aug 9, 2022 21:13:55 GMT -6
Large scale pattern starting to look downright cool by August standards later next week with a huge amplification of the trof across the E US...would probably be some 50s around if model trends hold.
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Post by John G -west belleville on Aug 10, 2022 7:48:32 GMT -6
The National Weather Service said Friday’s 1.47 inches of rain is considered a 1,000-year event, which means there’s a 1.1% chance of it happening in any given year. Brilliant Wouldn't that be a 110 year event?
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Post by beaker - Dardenne Prairie, MO on Aug 10, 2022 8:02:50 GMT -6
Guessing typo, or more accurately, copy/paste error from the writeup from previous storm.
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dgflyer13
Weather Weenie
St. Charles, MO (Near 364 & 94)
Posts: 13
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Post by dgflyer13 on Aug 10, 2022 9:08:22 GMT -6
The National Weather Service said Friday’s 1.47 inches of rain is considered a 1,000-year event, which means there’s a 1.1% chance of it happening in any given year. Brilliant Wouldn't that be a 110 year event? 1 in 90 years
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Post by jeepers on Aug 10, 2022 9:20:11 GMT -6
Mathz iz hard.
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Post by beaker - Dardenne Prairie, MO on Aug 10, 2022 10:24:25 GMT -6
Maybe its that new core common math.🤣
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Post by beaker - Dardenne Prairie, MO on Aug 10, 2022 13:09:21 GMT -6
Kind of fun to read the evolution of the storm that brought the "first inch of snow to st louis" - thread started jan 12 of this year.
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Post by cozpregon on Aug 10, 2022 13:31:37 GMT -6
That was from the Death Valley rain. CNN headline says 1000 year event then had this in the article
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Post by jmg378s on Aug 10, 2022 18:12:47 GMT -6
I'm still waiting on a 1-1000 year snow event here. Whatever that is it sounds fun.
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Post by ajd446 on Aug 10, 2022 19:20:33 GMT -6
This is some Chamber of Commerce weather tonight yall!!
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Post by Snowman99 on Aug 10, 2022 19:41:54 GMT -6
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Post by yypc on Aug 10, 2022 20:20:40 GMT -6
I'm still waiting on a 1-1000 year snow event here. Whatever that is it sounds fun. That would be something like 6” of snow lol
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Post by amstilost on Aug 11, 2022 4:19:20 GMT -6
59* 7 miles west of De Soto. What a beautiful morning.
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Post by cardsnweather on Aug 11, 2022 5:43:39 GMT -6
Man am I glad the front is coming. It’s nearly unbearable today. Let’s get that water out of the air and onto the ground! It's awful. Just never ending. Hopefully today is last 100+ HI of the year. Wishful thinking? haha Still holding out hope for this
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Post by BRTNWXMAN on Aug 11, 2022 9:43:18 GMT -6
Models backed off on the ring of fire potential this weekend with stronger low-level ridging in place and seasonable temps but they are starting to look very favorable for another heavy rainfall setup early next week.
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Post by beaker - Dardenne Prairie, MO on Aug 11, 2022 10:37:13 GMT -6
I havent checked the 12z models, but brtn has let the cat out of the bag with the mention of another impactful system, depicted by the gfs with a potent system along with high pwats, especially west of the ms river. Thinking nws will increase pops along and west of the river. Caveat of course is that the euro is further west with the axis of heavy rainfall, but i think the trends of the gfs is something i believe. Hopefully ppl can take advantage of the dry time to prep: sealing and caulking.
The wpc is comparatively underwhelming, but they likely havent caught up with the model trends, and with the pattern in place and saturated soils, i trust the trends.
We need clippers and southern tracking cyclones loaded like these are this coming winter.
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Post by BRTNWXMAN on Aug 11, 2022 12:14:13 GMT -6
UK and EC is further west with placement...00z UK had 6-8" near COU. Of course, this is ~4 days out so that could change. But it shows the potential. Have to say it looks somewhat similar to the setup that produced the historic flooding a few weeks ago. But I wouldn't expect 12"+ amounts just yet, lol
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Post by ajd446 on Aug 12, 2022 12:03:03 GMT -6
Models are now getting the heavy rain in the metro now next week. Not a good trend for the metro. Central mo is where they really need it.
As long as its over several days hopefully impacts will be minimal
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Post by REB on Aug 13, 2022 9:24:52 GMT -6
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Post by House Springs ~ DeerKiller ~ on Aug 13, 2022 10:13:09 GMT -6
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Post by bdgwx on Aug 13, 2022 21:56:37 GMT -6
By my count there has been 4 separate 1-in-1000 year flash flood events in the last couple of weeks. The first is St. Louis. The second is Kentucky. The third is Illinois. And the fourth is Death Valley.
Is this unusual? Maybe not.
To answer this question we need to understand what a 1-in-1000 event means exactly. A lot of people think it is a misnomer, but it's actually pretty reasonable jargon. It means that there is a 0.1% of chance of the event each year. Given a reasonably large sample we would expect the ratio of event years to non-event years to be 1-in-1000. There may gaps of 2000 years or only 10 years. But the expectation is still about every 1000 years. The odds of two 1-in-1000 year events occurring in the same year is about 1-in-1,000,000; unlikely, but possible. And the odds of it happening in any randomly selected 2 week period is about 1-in-25,000 (lots of caveats here though).
Now back to the question. To answer it let's assume the events are contained within a boundary that is 25 km * 25 km = 625 km^2. Each 625 km^2 region has a 1-in-25000 chance of experiencing the event in a 2 week period. There is about 9,800,000 km^2 of land area in the United States. Assuming all of that area is of enough interest to observe and report on extreme events that gives us 15,680 unique regions. Based on the Monte Carlo simulation I did that means each 2 week period we expect the odds of at least one of them experiencing the event to be about 47%. And the odds of 4 of them experiencing the event in the same 2 week period is about 0.4%. That means the recurrence interval of 4 separate 1-in-1000 year events occurring within the same 2 week period in the United States is about 1-in-10 years.
This is just a rough approximation. In reality the true recurrence interval of 4 separate 1-in-1000 year events in the same 2 week period is much more difficult to calculate when we consider all of the caveats. But it does provide a first approximation using first principal reasoning.
The point...hearing of 4 separate 1-in-1000 years so close together in 2022 is noteworthy. There's no doubt about that. But it's probably not as exceptional as you might think considering there are so many different regions rolling the dice within the United States.
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Post by BRTNWXMAN on Aug 14, 2022 7:40:28 GMT -6
Models are focusing the heavy rainfall axis across Central to S/SE MO Tuesday but the GFS/NAM has it getting into the IL counties too. Looks like some beneficial rainfall is on the way for the drought area to our west which is good news. Hopefully the flooding rains stay away from the Metro.
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Post by Snowstorm920 on Aug 14, 2022 9:20:52 GMT -6
Models are focusing the heavy rainfall axis across Central to S/SE MO Tuesday but the GFS/NAM has it getting into the IL counties too. Looks like some beneficial rainfall is on the way for the drought area to our west which is good news. Hopefully the flooding rains stay away from the Metro. Some models are shifting the heaviest rain eastward toward the metro. The NBM has been scooting eastward the last couple runs with the rainfall axis.
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Post by bellevillewxguy on Aug 14, 2022 9:21:45 GMT -6
Hurricane Season on vacation this year? CFS 768 hour not showing any meaningful storms through Mid-September, also showing us with an early blast of Fall after Labor Day, Summer's Back may truly be broken, and perhaps the Farmer's Almanac might be on to something if by chance if anything else. La Nina still holding strong though showing signs of collapse by Winter, if so some on another forum are stating if so, it could be epic for the Midwest like 2013/14.
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Post by beaker - Dardenne Prairie, MO on Aug 14, 2022 9:33:00 GMT -6
I think people misinterpret the 1 in a 1000 verbiage. It "sounds" to the masses a lot different than a .1 chance of a rain like that. Even having two in exactly the same area, to me, is not all that far fetched because to me anyway, that's what the pattern is all about. While statistics say the chances of two in the St. Louis area is .01, a persistent weather pattern providing two such extreme rains is not at all unrealistic. I agree having 4 separate events across the conus is noteworthy, but not at all exceptional. It's part of the pattern.
On to weather I would not let our guard down on the early week system for flash flooding. I am becoming increasingly concerned about an eastward trend and would not be surprised to see the potential for at least 2 to 4 inches of rain (haha I almost said snow), expand all the way to MS River. I'm not saying for sure that heavy rains will make it all the way to the river, but obviously I think the odds are such that you want to plan for heavy rain especially if you live in the far western western counties of the metro and points west - I'm speaking of places like Warren, Franklin, Montgomery, Audrain, down to Washington. Seems to me that Springfield, MO had flash flooding in the last event - they are in line for potentially another flash flood this time as well. I hope it stays west, but we do need some light rain here. The 15 inches certainly ran off.
So, preliminary discussion on winter - I see the almanac came out with its annual dooms day scenario...again. Just a bunch of drunk guys gathering in a bar scribbling their outlook on a bar napking I think. I do think what is noteworthy is that the heat and drought is not like 2012 for us as we are closer to the ring of fire all summer long. I also think the erosion of the drought in the plains into the 4 corners area could play a part as well. If these ongoing patterns survive the transition of the seasons, that could impact our winter months in some way. I don't think 2012 is a good analog for the upcoming winter as some on social media have suggested.
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Post by BRTNWXMAN on Aug 14, 2022 9:43:06 GMT -6
12z NAM has come in with a sizable shift NE with the placement of the heavy rainfall axis Tuesday. Wouldn't surprise me if that trend continues...models were a bit too far S/SW with the heavy rainfall event last month that hit the Metro. This doesn't look as intense, but the heavy rainfall/flooding threat is definitely there with PWATs running around 2" and freezing level @ ~15kft.
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Post by guyatacomputer - NE St. Peters on Aug 14, 2022 10:37:32 GMT -6
12z NAM has come in with a sizable shift NE with the placement of the heavy rainfall axis Tuesday. Wouldn't surprise me if that trend continues...models were a bit too far S/SW with the heavy rainfall event last month that hit the Metro. This doesn't look as intense, but the heavy rainfall/flooding threat is definitely there with PWATs running around 2" and freezing level @ ~15kft. So where is the heaviest rain axis setting up now according to the NAM?
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Post by BRTNWXMAN on Aug 14, 2022 11:20:45 GMT -6
12z NAM has come in with a sizable shift NE with the placement of the heavy rainfall axis Tuesday. Wouldn't surprise me if that trend continues...models were a bit too far S/SW with the heavy rainfall event last month that hit the Metro. This doesn't look as intense, but the heavy rainfall/flooding threat is definitely there with PWATs running around 2" and freezing level @ ~15kft. So where is the heaviest rain axis setting up now according to the NAM? Pretty much centered on the Metro, with the axis aimed down the river before it redevelops further S/SW.
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